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    Destiny Focused Feedback: Bounties

    April 27, 2020

    Destiny Focused Feedback: Bounties

    Focused Feedback: Bounties

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 10:21 PM PDT

    Hello Guardians,

    Focused Feedback is where we take the week to focus on a 'Hot Topic' discussed extensively around the Tower.

    We do this in order to consolidate Feedback, to get out all your ideas and issues surrounding the topic in one place for discussion and a source of feedback to the Vanguard.

    This Thread will be active until next week when a new topic is chosen for discussion

    Whilst Focused Feedback is active, ALL posts regarding 'Bounties' following its posting will be removed and re-directed to this thread. Exceptions to this rule are as follows: New information / developments, Guides and general questions

    Any and all Feedback on the topic is welcome.

    Regular Sub rules apply so please try to keep the conversation on the topic of the thread and keep it civil between contrasting ideas

    A Wiki page - Focused Feedback - has also been created for the Sub as an archive for these topics going forward so they can be looked at by whoever may be interested or just a way to look through previous hot topics of the sub as time goes on.

    submitted by /u/DTG_Bot
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    Daily Questions [2020-04-27]

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 06:00 PM PDT

    New player? Please read the New Light FAQ

    Bought the DLC? Shadowkeep FAQ

    Need Guidance? Collection of selected guides

    Shadowkeep & New Light known issues

    Welcome to the Daily Questions thread! Do you have a Destiny related question that needs answering? Can't find it anywhere else on the web? Well You're in luck! Simply ask your question down below, and the knowledgeable community of /r/DestinyTheGame will answer it to the best of their abilities!

    Be sure to read the Full Year 1 Recap and the Returning Players Guide, or use the search in the top right before submitting a question, as it could have already been answered. Also, be sure to check the thread itself!

    Be sure to sort by new to see the latest questions!

    Rules

    • Absolutely no down talking. You were all new to Destiny once, so there's no need to belittle anyone just because you might know more.

    • All hateful comments that derail conversation will be removed. This thread is a place of learning, so keep it civil.

    You can find the full Daily Thread schedule here.

    submitted by /u/DTG_Bot
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    Guardian Games would have been a perfect time to bring back Sparrow Racing League.

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 02:40 PM PDT

    Since Bungie seems to really like their token system, they could introduce tokens that can be redeemed at Amanda Holiday. for SRL gear.

    1st place awards: Gold medal and 5 SRL tokens.

    2nd place awards: Silver medal and 3 SRL tokens.

    3rd place: Bronze medal and 1 SRL token.

    4th-6th place: 1 SRL token.

    Incentivize competition AND participation at the same time, they could even include a Ghost shell or Sparrow for 100 SRL tokens. Just leave Eververse out of it for once (wishful thinking).

    Thoughts?

    Edit: Thank you the award kind redditors !

    submitted by /u/xZeroWolf
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    Remember when the Red Legion's last play was to manipulate the Infinite Forest?

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 01:52 PM PDT

    Remember when the Red Legion's last play was to hijack the Leviathan?

    Remember when the Red Legion's last play was to invade the Reef?

    Remember when the Red Legion's last play was to use the Black Armory forges?

    Remember when the Red Legion's last play was the manipulate the Infinite Forest again?

    I look forward to Season of the Last Play in June.

    submitted by /u/LobotomyJesus
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    Something bungie did right this season: high stats armor.

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 04:27 PM PDT

    When doing challenging activities, most armor drops are 60+. My highest armor is no longer ALWAYS from the season pass.

    submitted by /u/destinyvoidlock
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    D2's current design actively disincentivizes its best content

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 01:20 PM PDT

    I try really hard not to make complaint posts. Time Wasted on Destiny suggests I'm just shy of 1200 hours in game on D2, the top 4% of players, so I can't say I haven't gotten my money's worth, anyway.

    But there are parts of this game I really enjoy. Stuff other games aren't coming close to. So, why am I constantly asked not to play that content?

    I know I did a lot of ranting, so tl;dr: bounties need to incentivize doing non-patrol, higher-effort content, and Bungie should bring up some old content to fill that gap.

    Season of the Worthy

    I'd like to diagram the seasonal content, briefly. You clear bunkers, talk to RSPN, and do bounties. There are three types of bounties. The first is the Legendary Lost Sector weekly, the second is the PE weekly, and the third is dailies and repeatables, which have different goals but are structurally the same.

    Guardian Games is broadly a very similar structure, and the last two seasons were as well.

    I'm actually fine with this structure in theory, since Bounties are just diegetic game objectives, and they give reasons to shake up your play style or incentivize picking up content you haven't seen in a while. I like D2's content, even when I have to repeat it (occasionally). A game like Destiny really can't just have aspirational goals like "go to the Lighthouse," or "get Divinity," I think most players want a little grind time (though they may balk when it's mandatory).

    But...

    Daily Bounties

    ...I think it's reasonable to say if you offer players a narrative goal - fix Rasputin! save the Last City! - or an aspirational goal - new title! time-limited weapon rolls! - you're obviously incentivizing players to complete that goal, but you're also incentivizing them to do it efficiently.

    It's a timed goal, meaning you want to get progress done when you can. It's a story goal, meaning the most important thing you can do the moment you log on (from a narrative sense) is complete these bounties. The fact that it's aspirational means it has to compete with other aspirations - get max power, go to the Lighthouse, get Unbroken. It's a goal in a video game - people both have other hobbies, other games, and IRL aspirational stuff that they have to balance with these goals.

    This all may seem obvious, but if it's so obvious then why are the bounties structured to reward you for doing the most boring thing possible?

    RSPN has three categories of bounties. The first two are weekly - Legendary Lost Sectors and the special Public Event. I don't want to dig too deeply into these because they're really a small part of the weekly SotW grind. There are also his 'regular' bounties.

    All of RSPN's regular bounties come in one of two forms - dailies are typically "do specific task or play Crucible" and repeatables are generally "get kills with X". If you're doing these efficiently then the obvious choice to do them is whatever location / activity allows you to complete your goal with the lowest level enemies and the least downtime.

    This means patrol, generally. It might also mean Strikes, Nightmare Hunts, or Gambit, but typically it means doing them at the lowest level available.

    Incentivizing patrol content is terrible. In a game like WoW or Runescape, there's some value to extremely low-effort gameplay, something that just fills time while you listen to podcasts. Destiny is a shooter. I can't simp on Twitter while also playing Destiny. Low-effort gameplay, where enemies are weak and stakes are low, is fucking boring. There's no upside to it!

    Bounties and Endgame

    So why don't we just do bounties in the most engaging content already?

    The first reason is that the real 'endgame' of D2 is two activities - Grandmaster and Master Nightfalls, and Trials - and both are poorly suited to doing bounties.

    Both of these activities are repeatable, offer consistent high-level progress, and restrict access to new content (fully modded armor sets / builds, and new items in the case of Trials). Bounties are very frustrating to work on here because build really matters in these activities, and bounties generally push you to use specific loadouts.

    So now you've created two disjoint sets of content - hard, aspirational content for very invested players, and many, many hours of patrol content for everyone. These two conflict if you're a player that might be interested in the former - you only have so many hours in the day. If you fall somewhere in the middle engagement- or skill-wise - e.g., you like Master Nightfall but GM is too miserable to grind out the title - then either you can do the same Nightfalls you were grinding for mats last season, or the new content, which is patrol-level.

    But are Trials and Nightfall the only endgame content? That list is obviously missing at least two things.

    The first is Raids. Only one Raid even counts as endgame content anymore - only one will reliably reward you with level progress - and all the others are just Shitty Nightfalls. Why shitty? Because they take a lot longer and don't reward you mats. (Maybe the armor rolls are much better on the whole, I haven't seen good statistics, but anecdotally I don't think so. If you know better, I'd love to see your data.)

    None of the raids are repeatable content right now because of the way they drop items, not to mention how grouping works and the relative mechanical burden.

    The second is Dungeons. Unless you're doing specific aspirational content - DC title or Moon title - only Pit matters at all, and you have no incentive whatsoever to do it more than once a week.

    And neither of these activities are efficient ways to do bounties.

    Missing Content

    Here's a short list of things Bungie has quietly refused to support in its recent Seasons.

    1. The Whisper / Zero Hour - these are the biggest ones for me. There is no reason to do these once your catalyst is done. Which is absolutely insane to me, given they're beautiful, before the bug they were relatively challenging for midlevel players, and as the game ages fewer and fewer endgame players will want to sherpa people in them at all, making it more and more challenging to get their associated weapons. This has been a problem since they were released. I would much rather do my weekly Whisper than my Master Nightfall. I have done so many Nightfalls.
    2. Dungeons - I know Pit is still technically a pinnacle source, but Shattered Throne is completely unsupported. Pit at least drops one unique weapon, Throne drops nothing of significance. It's beautiful and engaging content, fills a gap in terms of pace and coordination between NFs and Raids.
    3. The Menagerie - Still a good source of drops, kind of okay for bounties except that the encounters are random, and many of us have grinded the Menagerie drops we care about already. Some of D2's most engaging content right here.
    4. Old Raids - They're good! Even when they're obnoxious (SoS) they're still beautiful, high-effort, and engage you in camaraderie with other Guardians.
    5. Story missions - a huge amount of patrol environs, including some of the most beautiful parts of Nessus, Titan, and EDZ, are completely unused except when we (rarely) have a quest send us there. I mean, I'm sure the community isn't jazzed by the idea of repeating low level story missions, but remember Year 1 Solstice of Heroes, when there were hard-mode story missions? Those were pretty engaging! (RIP matroishka-servitor)
      1. Exotic Missions - I'm going to make this a subcategory of the former specifically because of the way Ace in the Hole is currently treated. I know not all of the Exotic missions are that fun, but Risk/Reward, the Draw, and the Wish-Ender mission were. Are they all built-out enough to be Strike-level content? Maybe not, but these could get the Y1 Solstice treatment too.
      2. Saving Saint-14 - These are really just story missions, but I want to call them out specifically. This includes the Perfect Paradox quest from way back. Saint-14 is now a major vendor and lore character, and the whole context of him, Osiris, and Trials is inaccessible now. I understand Bungie has problems adding more to the game's filesize, but I think this bit of history is worth preserving. More worth preserving than Ace in the Hole, anyway.
      3. Adventures - Adventures were, at one point in Y1, an important branch of content. They're now doable as part of weekly flashpoints, which are not pinnacle and it's almost certainly faster to just do publics. Yes, some of them are not fun and in fact very boring. But some (Mercury heroics and Baron hunts) are definitely engaging. If Bungie is looking to streamline content, why not give these a pass and keep the most interesting and engaging ones?
    6. Nightmare Hunts - Technically a pinnacle source, techncially grindable but again, the game actively incentivizes getting Nightmare Essences from lower level activities - Altars and lower level Hunts, specifically. These are like mini-strikes, the Moon environs are beautiful, and killing Crota or Taniks always feels good.
    7. Horde Modes - EP and Shattered Throne. These are actually pretty good for some bounties, but they're also extremely not engaging. Both are very challenging to solo because of timers, but also very easy in a group.

    Bounty Burnout

    Here's my quick, off-the-cuff fix for bounties and season progress. I think this would hugely improve peoples' complaints about Season of Bounties. Yes, it involves make some design passes on old content. But I think there's a ton of stuff here that people have no reason to play (because what Bungie is telling us via design is to avoid this content and do patrols) which a quick pass could invigorate.

    Make a new tier of midgame/endgame content, and make seasonal bounties progress faster there. This tier should challenge player skill but give enough room for very skilled players to experiment with builds and maybe goof around a little. This tier should minimize or remove Champions. This could always be the prior max level of deprecated items when retirement is implemented, so you get to use your best tools for a little longer while working up to end-endgame.

    And bring back the absolute shitload of deprecated content. In a game with so much story and so much high-fidelity artistic enviornments why is Bungie engaging in design by accretion? Players will indeed get sick of things like Shattered Throne and Gambit if you refuse to support them, but even small updates like adding mobs or pushing the level up would make them more exciting, because a lot of the excitement of a shooter is in the, uh, shooting.

    You don't have to touch the floor, so the game remains very accessible if that's what you want. You don't have to touch the ceiling, so Trials and GM and whatever else can be tuned for ridiculous elite players. You don't have to make tons and tons of new content. Support some of what's already here. Give people some challenge, something to bridge this gap and make the seasonal content suck somewhat less.

    I don't think bounties, even in their current implementation, are the primary problem. The problem is what they communicate to us - that we should be doing patrol content to the exclusion of other things. Bungie, it seems like you're at an impasse - seasons can come with lots of new content, which people might absolutely hate or at least get bored of, or you can support content that already exists by giving it additional challenge and polish.

    I'm not sure of all of this, you all tell me what you think. But I've been thinking of this for a long time, and I think this would be a good chance to get some low-hanging fruit off the D2 design tree right now.

    submitted by /u/ulvok_coven
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    Shattered Throne should be a Pinnacle drop.

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 03:47 AM PDT

    Shattered Throne is one of the best pieces of content in the game next to Last Wish IMO, the dungeon is well put together and actually pretty fun mission to run with some friends. It's a shame it's being wasted it looks like a lot of effort was put into making it.

    submitted by /u/lnRussia
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    Medal Podium: "Oh, did you just spent an hour grinding out bounties and medals? Here have some blue armour!"

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 07:40 AM PDT

    At this point bright dust, planet mats, gunsmith materials, tokens, a nice picture of a dog, literally just EXP would be better. The rewards for banking medals are shamefully wank.

    submitted by /u/Khal_Doggo
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    3x Strikes dropping a pinnacle but 3x Ordeals dropping a powerful makes no sense

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 10:49 AM PDT

    Title. I'm pleased there are more ways to get pinnacle drops, but I think it should have been Ordeals that got the bump - they're harder, so the reward for doing three should be better than doing three basic strikes.

    submitted by /u/hill_79
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    I modeled a custom SIVA Anarchy ornament, complete with name and (probably plothole filled) lore! :)

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 07:15 PM PDT

    A link to the imgur album complete with multiple shots of the ornament along with the lore itself: https://imgur.com/a/FFh1oC3

    submitted by /u/Breadical
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    We should interact with the last city more

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 02:23 PM PDT

    If we're supposed to be the guardians of Earth, it's so weird we're detached from humanity like we are. Beyond the Farm, we don't interact with many non-guardians. Even so, I think it's easy to forget how powerful we actually are in the game's lore. Not only are we The Guardian - more powerful than normal guardians - but we never experience the spectrum of power related to normal humans.

    I was reading through the lore of Thorn again and thought it was so compelling that guardians would just show up at human outposts and hang around, becoming leaders in the community. Instead, we live in the field, only showing up at the tower to grab bounties, then leave again. There's just no gravity to our purpose.

    I'd suspect a way to feel even more substantial is to interact with the city, not only as a way to gauge our literal power, but also the impact of our contributions on the world and why we fight.

    submitted by /u/cbeasley0
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    Swap drop rate for Anti-Paladin sparrow and the guns

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 04:33 AM PDT

    I don't need to get the sparrow every run. Guns loot pool and perk is large enough to incentivize us to play while keep the grind going.

    submitted by /u/RobGThai
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    When the Pyramids arrive in September, if the story turns out to be "we weren't prepared" I will lose my mind.

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 10:11 PM PDT

    I wanted tense encroachment of the darkness while we struggle to prepare our defenses. Instead we end up saving Osiris' boyfriend, shooting down a space station, and playing in the Space Olympics.

    submitted by /u/Treebaerd
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    Forget the Pyramids. The most terrifying threat we face is hinted at in the Heir Apparent's flavor text.

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 05:31 PM PDT

    "The Red Legion will march again." - Caiatl

    How many times must we teach you this lesson, old Cabal!?

    submitted by /u/SparkyGol
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    Not sure if it’s been posted before but killing in Well of Radiance counts as ability kills, for everybody in it.

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 09:37 AM PDT

    After some reckoning we noticed we were getting an absurd amount of laurels to drop just from shooting from a well. Turns out getting kills, IN A WELL counts as ability kills for anybody in it, and all you have to use is your guns. Makes for very easy team lost sector farms, with a team as well Destination farms since Reckoning counts towards Destination laurels!

    submitted by /u/Synavik
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    Season of Dawn should’ve featured a strike of Solkis, Devil Kell resurrected as a Nightmare with Saint-14 on comms

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 01:55 PM PDT

    The same Kell who nearly toppled Saint-14 before he went off to Mercury

    submitted by /u/john6map4
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    Uldren is the only one falling for the Vanguard's tricks

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 08:02 AM PDT

    Hunters all know that guardian games is being used to find the next Hunter vanguard. But nobody told uldren and he's the only one turning in medals.

    submitted by /u/Sideswiper22
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    Due to the lack of mod slots, Like 70% of exotic armors are worse than seasonal mods

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 03:50 AM PDT

    TL;WR: Just add mod slots to Exotics.

    I like the capabilities of mod slots, and outside of super powerful exotics, or ones that simply have no similar replacement (I don't care how niche you are, Oathkeepers, you're always a Top tier pick for me), I'm getting to the point that I'd prefer the Charged with light damage bonus, or damage resistance, or the Warmind Cell explosions, or even the old Armaments mods. And while that's kinda nice, I'd also prefer that the "Super high exclusive rarity items" remain as the best items in the game; that's why they're exotic and you're limited to one-at-a-time.

    Exotic weapons are having the same dilemma, but so far, it's primarily regarding high-tier Champion-based content.

    submitted by /u/Kangarou
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    Just took a photo that made me think about the state of Destiny's lore, then a friend of mine edited for more "accuracy"

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 02:53 PM PDT

    Guys, please don't leave this weeks nightfall (Kargen) after you get the strike chest rewards... You only hurt yourself.

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 03:39 AM PDT

    The strike is not over til the activity timer pops up. Just had again a random leaving before the strike was actually over. Someone else was able to ninja join and got rewards for free. One person didn't got rewards, the other got it for free. Watch your game, guardians.

    submitted by /u/Talia_Sendua
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    I love failing an instanced 9 man activity over and over again. especially for a SEAL

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 02:56 PM PDT

    Seriously Bungie, what possessed you guys to think another EP type activity was necessary. We have EP, Blind Well, and Altars of Sorrow. Not only that, but finding a group for this isn't exactly easy since every guardian in an instance has 2 slots reserved. AND the activity was just upped in difficulty for no reason whatsoever, rewards aren't any different and I don't feel any more accomplished then I did at the start of the season. I had some time to kill and I've barely been playing, but the seal seemed easy enough so here's to some rng and maybe I'll get the seal.

    submitted by /u/thecrimsonfucker12
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    Hey Bungie, why the heck are silver metals considerably more difficult to achieve than gold medals?

    Posted: 25 Apr 2020 10:23 PM PDT

    See title. It's a small detail but still kind of gets on my nerves a bit, the silver medals almost always have you achieving x amount of laurels, which in my opinion is more difficult than defeating 300 enemies in gambit. I always have the silver medals left to do last for some reason, and I doubt it's only me. Am I going crazy or..?

    submitted by /u/Crimarc
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    Open faced helmets would be a neat addition to the game

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 06:10 PM PDT

    Open faced helmets a-la Osiris would be neat.

    Especially since most players keep their helmets on at all times, it would be a cool way to see our guardians face just a little more often.

    Also it would just be badass and sometimes that's the only reason you need

    submitted by /u/JacobEvertson
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    [Serious] Bungie, how difficult would it be to get some more character creation/customization options?

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 11:55 AM PDT

    I don't know about you guys, but I still find it incredibly strange that I can't turn my character model or zoom out in the creation phase, I can't zoom in when I'm previewing a shader, and that after nearly three years of D2, there's still only seven facial configurations and a handful of facial markings/ornaments per character race/gender. And most of them are ugly.

    Nah, just kidding. They're all beautiful.

    It might not be as important as discussing the state of Trials or bounties, but I personally believe that being able to create your own character in a game like this means being able to create your own character. So, from a technical standpoint, how difficult would it be to add some sliders so that we could adjust our player models, or at the very least add some more preset facial configurations and ornaments? I'm actually kind of interested in the answer; I spent some time studying 3D modeling and got interested in things like model deformation and bone mapping.

    For now, though, I'll go back to casting Uma Thurman as my Hunter.

    EDIT: Holy cow, this made it on the front page? I wonder if they have a shader for 'surprised'.

    submitted by /u/MrSolemn
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    Exotic rolls over 60 have made me excited to see exotic drops again. Thanks Bungie

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 07:38 PM PDT

    I think it would be fair for exotics to drop at 70 since they're so expensive to masterwork but I'll take what I can get.

    submitted by /u/TheAtlasComplex
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    Can we please start a forge only when there are 3 people ready?

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 08:13 AM PDT

    It's fustrating when you load up a forge run, and you are the only one there, only to get 2 teammates when there are 10 seconds remaining

    submitted by /u/i4viator
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    Two man Two phase Sanctified mind Season of the Worthy :)

    Posted: 26 Apr 2020 08:52 PM PDT

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYplfECSJQk

    took us about 25 hours of practice with eachother to get to the point where we could even prove it possible but then execute it. ggs to the homie <3

    #FrickIzanagiNerf

    (as im posting it we just completed it today and just uploaded it so the quality wont be any better than 360p) will also post a link to the bungie community page to potentially get movie of the week from this challenge

    submitted by /u/SycoF
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